tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post114619916969018441..comments2023-09-07T07:48:39.974-07:00Comments on India-awake: Quotas - an idea whose time has goneindia-awakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01001936719911449985noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1150962574350359182006-06-22T00:49:00.000-07:002006-06-22T00:49:00.000-07:00Read your blog.Liked it a lot.Here is mine http:...Read your blog.Liked it a lot.Here is mine http://www.emotionalzombie.blogspot.com/<BR/>"You say, if a student knows a seat is reserved for him he is not going to work towards it. Ask yourself- If a person knows Education is subsidized for his kids, food items are subsidized for him, is he going to work? Isn’t it harming the Economy? Isn’t the highly subsidized education we avail a classic example of social injustice? "Memorykinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10906592212001263089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1148453684260547422006-05-23T23:54:00.000-07:002006-05-23T23:54:00.000-07:00SEE FINALLY GOVT. HAS DONE WHAT IT WANTED TO DO. W...SEE FINALLY GOVT. HAS DONE WHAT IT WANTED TO DO. WE ARE LEARNING SOMETHING FROM HISTORY OF DICTATORSHIPS AND MILITARY REGIMESAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147976727686905302006-05-18T11:25:00.000-07:002006-05-18T11:25:00.000-07:00The government is now using strong arm tactics to ...The government is now using strong arm tactics to do what it wants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147668416097656832006-05-14T21:46:00.000-07:002006-05-14T21:46:00.000-07:00Anonymous has absolutely rightly said that no poli...Anonymous has absolutely rightly said that no politician would oppose this proposal for fear of losing out. This is being cleverly manipulated by the Congress and Arjun Singh in particular.<BR/><BR/>Congress has always been full of manipulators. <BR/><BR/>The people only can teach them a lesson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147659688610689542006-05-14T19:21:00.000-07:002006-05-14T19:21:00.000-07:00Arjun singh is an ambitious politician, has a ves...Arjun singh is an ambitious politician, has a vested intersts for example future of his son in MP, ALSO SEEMS TO HAVE AN EYE ON PRESIDENTSCY and is well known to be a manipulator.<BR/>Unfortunately , we are not offering resistance, hence he is getting away <BR/>No politician will oppose this since they have a fear (not out of a genuine intersts in SC/ST/OBSs)of being antagonised by other opposing political party.In the whole process one thing that is going to emrge is these premium institute's quality, since they will be filled with sub optimal performers in the name of reservation.Reservations can be given as financial support, make everyone compete only then quality will be maitainedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147346072216943912006-05-11T04:14:00.000-07:002006-05-11T04:14:00.000-07:00Long and short of what previous reader says, my vi...Long and short of what previous reader says, my view is that any compulsory reservation is complex and will raise more questions and demands from more and more segments for such reservations even based on religion. There is no scientific basis because by very definition, these reservations are based on subjective criteria.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147311408652048372006-05-10T18:36:00.000-07:002006-05-10T18:36:00.000-07:00@Anon abovePlease do some reading on Affirmative a...@Anon above<BR/>Please do some reading on Affirmative action in the US before commenting. US style affirmative action is not the 50% reservation that you are talking about. Coming reservations in India some of the questions are what should be the percentage, who should be the benefecaries, how long should it exist? Mandal commission report is based on the demographics of 1930s. How can we use 80 year data to provide "affirmative" action today? What about the rich and powerful "backward" classes? What about women, who irrespective of their caste, are backward according to Mandal report?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147082754437699412006-05-08T03:05:00.000-07:002006-05-08T03:05:00.000-07:00The comments above are justified and it is indeed ...The comments above are justified and it is indeed demeaning to ask such amateur and thoughtless questions about being treated by a reservationist etc.<BR/><BR/>However, the point at issue is completely different. Obviously, when a person passes the exam and is declared an MBBS etc. he is fit whether he is high class or sc/st or obc.<BR/><BR/>The main point is about quotas <I> at the time of entrance</I> which is what the government is trying to do and give preference to caste and community rather than merit for entering into the higher education course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1147080798811849022006-05-08T02:33:00.000-07:002006-05-08T02:33:00.000-07:00Kudos to anonymous for highlighting the concept of...Kudos to anonymous for highlighting the concept of reservations for the various communities in the various countries of the world. While the reservations which were present were ok, any increase in these will have to consider whether the 50% quota is really required. Keeping the merit or demerit of the reserved category student aside, I was aghast at the racist comments given by the agitators and few other mediahungry youth in various discussions. How does it matter if a person from reserved or non-reserved category comes to treat a patient? Does it mean that only gold and silver medalists from these non-reserved categories must treat patients. In the practice of medicine marks never count, only your skills and confidence counts. I myself have seen many of the so called achievers from non-reserved categories make horrible blunders while treating patients, whereas the other students were cautious. The statement that one person gave to a news channel after the agitation of the Delhi medicos is pathetic and reeks of extreme racism. They had the guts to ask the news reporter if he would like if a oerson of reserved category came to treat an emergency. It is demeaning to put down your colleagues just because they have come from the reserved category. I have seen many students who were non-achievers in medical subjects go ahead and make pathbreaking discoveries and modifiactions whereas the so called non-reserved gold and silver medalists were seen to be only book worms. Whether a person has entered medicine on reserved or non-reserved category, they have to pass through the asme exams and practicals to become the specialists. To say that a person who has taken few more years to complete his studies is bad at treating patients is totally irresponsible. I would like to ask these medicos to finish studies and then see how such things never matter in private practice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146934235676701112006-05-06T09:50:00.000-07:002006-05-06T09:50:00.000-07:00anonymous has tried to give quite some details on ...anonymous has tried to give quite some details on different matters.<BR/><BR/>The fact is that we have to speak of our own situation and take a decision that will take the country forward not remain in a time capsule.<BR/>Reservations and quotas should be talked of in terms of the past not the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146570613038877472006-05-02T04:50:00.000-07:002006-05-02T04:50:00.000-07:00comments of atlantean makes sense.One unfortunate ...comments of atlantean makes sense.<BR/><BR/>One unfortunate part is that because of the sensitivities that the political parties themselves have created over the years, even opposition parties like BJp are sitting on the fence.<BR/>As someone rightly said, no political party wants to bell the cat and say that the emperor is not wearing any clothes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146551745732570792006-05-01T23:35:00.000-07:002006-05-01T23:35:00.000-07:00Anonymous, we know what affirmative action is, tha...Anonymous, we know what affirmative action is, thank you. And, so what if the whole developed world has reservation of some kind?<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying there should be no affirmative action. We're all protesting only about the unfairness of the present system. We need a new one, one which makes more sense in <B>this</B> country at <B>this</B> time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146511225046843882006-05-01T12:20:00.000-07:002006-05-01T12:20:00.000-07:00full marks to dr. patki above.we should start with...full marks to dr. patki above.<BR/><BR/>we should start with his last suggestion first.<BR/><BR/>i wonder what mr singh (or mr chidambaram who is supporting him) would have done if he himself in his career at some point would have been prevented from pursuing anything whether in academics or politics because of reservation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146505051882712732006-05-01T10:37:00.000-07:002006-05-01T10:37:00.000-07:00The last bit was cool. The medical students reps m...The last bit was cool. The medical students reps must make this suggestion to singh lets see him sheding some morwe crocodile tears.tanvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133507275057478966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146412614539138672006-04-30T08:56:00.000-07:002006-04-30T08:56:00.000-07:00Hey dude, anonymous, you seem to be confused.You h...Hey dude, anonymous, you seem to be confused.<BR/><BR/>You have given various examples some of which are oranges when we are talking of apples.<BR/><BR/>Also, the question of reservations based on OBC is a very complex one and the Indian situation is different than most other societies with a more or less cohesive structure.<BR/><BR/>A discussion of even the Indian situation is very complex and it is not possible to explain in readers' comments to those who are not having a good background,as to what is wrong with quotas and reservations.<BR/><BR/>Suffice it to say, tnat time has come to do away with the existing reservations in a time bound manner, not to enhance the scope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146403058431879932006-04-30T06:17:00.000-07:002006-04-30T06:17:00.000-07:00Tell me why there should be no reservations/quotas...Tell me why there should be no reservations/quotas in India after having read the following . <BR/><BR/>Reservations and quotas are a form of Affirmative action. <BR/><BR/>What is affirmative action ? <BR/>Affirmative action is a policy or a program aimed at increasing the representation of members of groups that have traditionally been discriminated against. This typically focuses on education,employment, government contracts ,health care or social welfare.<BR/><BR/>Just look at how it is practiced in the following countries :<BR/><BR/>American President Lyndon Johnson said "You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line in a race and then say, 'you are free to compete with all the others', and still justly believe that you have been completely fair."<BR/><BR/>In USA : American President Lyndon Johnson brought in affirmative action by an “excecutive order” . The order aims "to correct the effects of past and present discrimination". <BR/><BR/>The order specifically requires certain organizations accepting federal funds to take affirmative action to increase employment of members of preferred racial or ethnic groups and women. Any organization with fifty or more employees and an aggregate revenue exceeding $50,000 from a single federal contract during a twelve month period must have a written affirmative action plan. This plan must include goals and timetables for achieving full utilization of women and members of racial minorities, in quotas based on an analysis of the current workforce compared to the availability in the general labor pool of women and members of racial minorities.<BR/><BR/>In Japan : there are informal policy to provide employment and long term welfare (which is usually not available to general public) to Burakumin (untouchables). <BR/><BR/>In Brazil :Brazilian Universities (State or Federal) have created systems of preferred admissions (quotas) for racial minorities (blacks and native Brazilians), the poor and the handicapped. There are also quotas for the disabled in the civil public services.<BR/><BR/>In Malaysia :there are laws called bumiputra laws which are a form of affirmative action meant to provide more opportunity for the majority ethnic Malay population versus the historical financial dominance of the Malaysian Chinese and Malaysian Indian populations.<BR/><BR/>In New Zealand :individuals of Maori or other Polynesian descent are often afforded preferential access to university courses, and scholarships.<BR/><BR/>In South Africa : there is a the Employment Equity Act aims to promote and achieve equity in the workplace, by encouraging equal opportunity amongst all workers. It includes efforts to identify reasons for inequalities and change the employment rates of previously underrepresented groups for a more equitable job market.<BR/><BR/>In UK: according to the Good Friday Agreement the law requires that the Police Service of Northern Ireland recruit equal numbers of Catholics and non Catholics.<BR/><BR/>In Indonesia: affirmative action programs give natives preference over Han Chinese who have immigrated into the country.<BR/><BR/>In Macedonia :minorities, most notably Albanians, are allocated quotas for access to state universities, as well as in civil public services.<BR/><BR/>In China : there is a quota for minority representatives in the National Assembly in Beijing, as well as other realms of government.<BR/><BR/>In the European Union: there is an antiracism directive which concerns the application of the principle of equality without regard to race or ethnic origin. This anti-racism directive, is to be implemented in national law of the member states.<BR/><BR/>In Germany :there are programs stating that if men and women had equal qualifications, women had to be preferred for a job. The anti-discrimination law which is yet to pass, aims at improving the protection of minorities.<BR/><BR/>Belgium government :proposed in January 2006 a measure that will make some job opportunities available exclusively to immigrants, disabled and elderly people.<BR/><BR/>American President Lyndon Johnson said "You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line in a race and then say, 'you are free to compete with all the others', and still justly believe that you have been completely fair."<BR/><BR/>Why should I belive you when you tell me reservations will harm India when much of the developed world does believe that social justice can be done by reservation/quotas for those that are discriminated against?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146335184406825352006-04-29T11:26:00.000-07:002006-04-29T11:26:00.000-07:00comments of atlantean about cremay layer are appre...comments of atlantean about cremay layer are appreciated.<BR/><BR/>However the time has come when this type of leeway should also not be offered so that the system does not continue for ever.<BR/><BR/>Time is now to initiate thinking on how to stop the system in the next few years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146334955433153032006-04-29T11:22:00.000-07:002006-04-29T11:22:00.000-07:00Why blame Arjun Singh. His party chief wants it. T...Why blame Arjun Singh. His party chief wants it. The Left parties want it.<BR/><BR/>In general, governments that have failed to deliver the goods including Central or State (Maharashtra, Gujarat, Tamilnadu) all want to implement these quotas to get attention of the people diverted from development issues and governance where they have <B>FAILED THE PEOPLE. That can be the only plausible reason for continuing with this divisive policy. </B>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146289413987602072006-04-28T22:43:00.000-07:002006-04-28T22:43:00.000-07:00The reason why in states like Tamilnadu there is n...The reason why in states like Tamilnadu there is no protest, is that there is a skewed situation whereby over 80% of the population qualify as quota category. Therefore, there is strong vested interest.<BR/><BR/>please see comments of one max and replies to that at:<BR/><BR/>http://www.ibnlive.com/news/students-continue-stir-against-quota/8987/read_comments.html#Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146247405107788332006-04-28T11:03:00.000-07:002006-04-28T11:03:00.000-07:00Unfortunately, what the young generation realises,...Unfortunately, what the young generation realises, the old foggies in the government and the opposition do not.<BR/><BR/>Even if they do realise the new realities they are all afraid to take the bull by the horn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146245808962923772006-04-28T10:36:00.000-07:002006-04-28T10:36:00.000-07:00India's demographic makeup has changed a lot in th...India's demographic makeup has changed a lot in the past 60 years and so the reservation system should also change accordingly. It is that simple.<BR/><BR/>What we need is a reservation system based on economic backwardness i.e., it is time the caste factor is taken out. I say that because there are pockets of affluence even in the SC/ST/OBC communities. If this is done, a poor SC/ST/OBC will reap benefits of their reservation quotas and the rich ones will be kept off to fend for themselves. It cant get fairer than this.<BR/><BR/>Some measures like the <A HREF="http://ncbc.nic.in/html/creamylayer.htm" REL="nofollow">creamy layer norm</A> for OBCs serve this purpose partially. Similar measures must be applied to the SC/STs.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, that would only be a temporary measure. What is required is a complete overhaul - by a system which is based on recent data and one which takes current conditions into account.<BR/><BR/>It does seem this move was politically motivated. Elections are ahead. This is the best test for the people. We'll get to know if people still choose to be dumb or if they'll exercise their voting rights to good effect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146234009597253592006-04-28T07:20:00.000-07:002006-04-28T07:20:00.000-07:00I completely agree reservations have been around f...I completely agree reservations have been around for over five decades and have made no difference except assisting oppurtunistic politicians pandering for vote bank politics and those among the so called backward sections who are no longer backward by virtue of economic standing. Singh took this lousy step keeping an eye on the state elections and as sudhansu says he should not be allowed to use poliotical tactics to his electoral advantage. Instead of reservations why can't we improve on basic education. For the backward sections why not stick to skill building and scholarships? Anyway in a globalised society its not caste but merit and efficiency which decides one's future so effort should be to build on them. Dividing a society in name of caste and religion are perverse tactics used by good for nothing politicians like Singh.tanvihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133507275057478966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146227870518016132006-04-28T05:37:00.000-07:002006-04-28T05:37:00.000-07:00I fully endorse Sudhansu, the politicians of Arjun...I fully endorse Sudhansu, the politicians of Arjun Singh type are too cunning to let any genuine struggle survive. <BR/><BR/>The article also makes a reference of what is likely to happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146226402741869252006-04-28T05:13:00.001-07:002006-04-28T05:13:00.001-07:00Another interesting thing that I read today was th...Another interesting thing that I read today was that Arjun Singh has asked the students in the medical colleges to put off the strike and that the government would talk about this issue again after the elections.<BR/><BR/>The strange part is that the students agreed. I might be paranoid, but I think that is fishy. If the students were protesting against the reservations, it was mighty clear that this move was to get the vote banks. <BR/><BR/>Now even if the government reduces the reservation after the polls, they would still get the vote bank, which is not what we or the OBC's want.<BR/><BR/>I have nothing against the OBC's personally and I'm sure they don't have anything against me too, all we want is that politicians are not playing silly politics with us. But it looks like the students have agreed to become pawns in the process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20557782.post-1146226400914444152006-04-28T05:13:00.000-07:002006-04-28T05:13:00.000-07:00I wonder how people in the South have been putting...I wonder how people in the South have been putting up with such reservations of a high order for so long.<BR/><BR/>Does it mean they do not have merit?<BR/><BR/>It is time the young generation in the Southern States also start seriously thinking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com